Lama Hourani (@lamahourani and @lamahouranijewelry) is a Jordanian jewelry designer who grew up in the country’s capital, Amman. Her artistically-minded entrepreneurial parents founded private art gallery Foresight 32 when she was a just girl. When a silversmith jeweler came asking for work at the gallery, during the Iraq war, her mother took him in and they turned their small gallery kitchen into a workshop and that is how Lama found her passion. Lama launched her line of silver jewelry in 2000. An artist and designer, Lama talks about her creative process, her studies and friendship with previous guest of the show Paolo Ferrarini, who taught her a class which marked her, about “emotional geography”.
She talks candidly about her challenges gaining an international reputation as a Jordanian brand and how important it is for her that young Arab men and women are able to see successful brands, like hers from the Middle East, making it big internationally. Named a Young Global Leader at the World Economic Forum for her commitment in supporting women in Jordan since the early days of her company, Lama offers her views on building bridges between people and cultures and creating universal languages through her designs.
The mother of gorgeous twins, Matteo and Dalila, aka Lamoncitos, offers generous insights into her journey in cultural entrepreneurship and, well, the difficulties of juggling growing an independent brand with the demands of motherhood. A beautiful conversation which hopefully will inspire another generation of talented, bright and socially impactful creatives. Enjoy!
Selected Links from the Episode
on Instagram :
https://www.instagram.com/lamahourani/
https://www.instagram.com/lamahouranijewelry/
on Twitter @LamaHourani
on Facebook LamaHourani
Lama Hourani Chillida Collection
Lama’s reads:
Behave by Robert Sapolsky
The Essential Rumi
Cleo Wade’s Heart Talk
Full Episode Transcript
Anne Muhlethaler:
Hi. Hello. Bonjour. Ni Hao. Did I say that right? This is Out Of The Clouds, a podcast at the crossroads between business and mindfulness. I’m your host, Anne Muhlethaler. Today, I am delighted to be joined by my friend, Lama Hourani, after an introduction from a friend. Lama is both a talented jewelry designer with what I could describe as a deep, spiritual connection to people and the world around us, and also a cultural entrepreneur, which we get into during this interview. Lama has lived and traveled to many places which are, of course, sources of inspiration in her collections, and is currently sharing her time with her family between Shanghai, Amman, and Barcelona. I’m really happy to be bringing you this beautiful conversation with a woman who I think is a great example about what it means to be an entrepreneur and how to have a positive impact on our communities, so without further ado, I am very happy to bring you this wide ranging interview with Lama Hourani. Enjoy. Hi Lama. It’s so nice to hear your voice. How are you today?
Lama Hourani:
I’m great.
Anne:
How are things in Shanghai?
Lama:
Things are great. This is the last week or two of nice weather before winter hits, and it’s really nice. It’s a sweet, romantic time of the year.
Anne:
You grew up in Jordan in Amman. I remember you telling me that your parents opened the first private art gallery in the capital, and I wanted to see if you wouldn’t mind starting with telling me a little bit about what it was like growing up, about your upbringing, and your journey around creativity?
Lama:
My father was a political activist, demanding human rights, democracy, women’s rights, etc, in the Middle East. Jordan, at the time, hasn’t announced democracy as a political direction for the country, so he was kind of out of the country. I was born in Syria, and the once they declared democracy, we moved back to Amman, Jordan, and my dad opened his think tank. My mom opened an art gallery. Her art gallery actually was the first private art gallery that was run entirely by an individual versus backed up by government, bank, or a private sector. Basically, they started the business out of nothing. They had no backing in the sense they literally were entrepreneurs starting up a business.
Lama:
It was really exciting, as a family, to go throughout that journey. As a child, you’re seeing your parents really work hard and excel in something from zero. Then, we grew up having the art gallery. That gave us access to a lot of creativity, freedom, and unusual or uncommon way of thinking at the time … Amazing, intellectual conversations. It gave it a lot of cultural depth and even political. On many levels, it fed us as a family. Also, growing up, I didn’t understand why we had so many paintings on the wall. I think my parents literally used the house as a storage or a warehouse. They had all the extra artworks hanging. Then, I’d go to other peoples’ homes, and there’s none. Literally no art. It was weird. I thought I didn’t like that, and I didn’t want to be like that when I grew up, but I turned out to be exactly the same as my parents, where we have art almost ceiling to floor in the house.
Lama:
Other than that, we grew up in an environment where we were drawing all the time, expressing freely, and literally playing in the street all the time. We had no limitations and barriers. My mom did her second degree. She did interior architecture while I was, I think, I would say, six. My sister was two. We also had so many of her close students, her classmates, hanging out at home. One of them was actually playing the guitar and singing to us to sleep. It was incredible. I have so many beautiful memories. It wasn’t easy. It wasn’t easy growing up. We didn’t have so much luxury in our life, but we had so much love, and that was incredible. I can see how important that is when I think about what I want to give my children, and the most important things when you raise a child. We have a lot of creativity and creative freedom to express ourselves, and I think that’s also one of the key elements in who I am today.
Anne:
I would love to see images of the house, of your home, when you were growing up. You do have a stunning art collection that I remember seeing it in Paris. Do you feel that you’ve found a space for everything where you are now in Shanghai? Is everything at home now again?
Lama:
Yeah. It’s nice to see … We’ve had the same stuff for the past eight years since we got married. We’ve added a few things here and there, but our home jumps from one place to the other. We’re not the type that we keep anything behind. Our stuff lives with us and grows with our family as it grows and expands. It’s really fun to see the house change and take a new identity with every new place we’re in. For us, I think our most important when we move to any place is having our creative nest with our things that stimulate us and give that home feeling, so the art and our objects that we bought over trips. Every item in our home has a story, has a memory, has a place, and even smell sometimes. It’s incredible what an object or an artwork makes you feel, especially when you start remembering the process of acquiring that piece, the memory, what you felt, where you were, and all of that … And what moment in your life, because our lives are changing so much every day with the kids.
Lama:
We’ve really transformed from two people freely experiencing and exploring the world to four overnight, and that really changed our perspective to a lot of things. It’s nice that we have all these things to remind us of who we were before and who we will be in the future. Other than that, that’s something that not a lot of parents do. I had the courage to not baby proof, so I wanted my kids to grow around art and learn to take care of things without fear. I kind of made them understand that you have to be careful. We love art, and we take care of art. The same with the plants. It started as an experiment. The only thing I baby proofed is some of the cabinet had little things inside or things that they could swallow. I just closed these cabinets, and I put on one corner a spongy thing for kids, and that’s it. The rest, I never moved a vase or an artwork. It was incredible, and my kids are super, super aware of everything in the house.
Anne:
That’s really interesting. I’m so happy to see how mindful your kids are and how well they understand their environment, I guess.
Lama:
It’s hard. You reflect what you want them to learn, right? As long as they’re coherent with what you tell them to do, I think they just adopt the attitude and way of thinking automatically.
Anne:
The other day, over text message, we realized that we had a friend in common. This other friend we have in common is my previous guest on the show, Paolo Ferrarini, who was your teacher at the Marangoni Institute in Milan. Do you know what? As I was editing the podcast, I kept on thinking, “Maybe Lama knows him.” I didn’t have a chance to text you to double check, so I’d love to hear about how you ended up in Milan, and how did you pick the school? If you want to tell us, what was Paolo’s class like?
Lama:
Before I met my husband, Spain became a compass or a center point in our life. Italy was my mecca actually, so I would go there every few months to fuel up. I used to travel there a lot. I used to seek inspiration whenever I was working on a collection, and I used to go to jewelry fairs. I was really connected to Italy. I did my gemmology degree before I did my master’s degree there. It’s always been a place I was passionate about, so Milano made a lot of sense. I was in a creative point where I felt I really needed reinventing myself. I felt a bit of a creative block, so I’m like, “I really need to get out of my comfort zone.” I did my master’s and wanted to do Milano. Marangoni made a lot of sense.
Lama:
They had just opened a product design class, which was what I wanted. It was literally like a private master’s class, because we were three or four people max. It was incredible, so our professors became our friends. We’re all professionals that are doing our master’s degree, so it wasn’t a student-professor relationship. It was really fun. It was really an incredible experience. There were amazing teachers. Paolo’s class struck me a lot. I can’t remember the name of the course, but until today I practice and play all the time with something called emotional geography. We connected. That point of the course was really important to me, because that’s what I do when I design. It’s part of my inspiration process. It’s part of my creative process. The whole emotional geography, connecting the world through sense, experiences, emotions, and individuals.
Lama:
I really love that aspect, and I was doing it all the time. It’s basically when you’re in a market and you smell a smell, you remember a meal at home, or a meal you had at someone’s home that you love. You see a painting, but it reminds you of someone else’s living room or a view from a window. It’s like connecting the senses with the geography and how it triggers emotions. I love that really. Actually, the other day we were at a place called Columbia Circle here in Shanghai. It’s an old, colonial architectural plaza that has beautiful architecture. It reminded me there’s this giant pool in the middle. There’s literally a courtyard that, instead of a courtyard, there’s a pool in it. It just reminded me of the Molitor. You know that hotel in Paris?
Anne:
Oh yes. That hotel in Paris. Absolutely.
Lama:
Yeah. It’s beautiful. I remember … Actually, I went there when I was gigantic a few weeks before delivering, and I remember everyone’s jaws dropping when they saw my belly, but it was incredible how I literally lived the [inaudible 00:11:36] moment and remembered how I felt in my body, in my everything under the sun there while I was, at night, in Columbia Circle in front of that pool. It was really nice. That’s why I remember Paolo a lot. A few years later, he interviewed me for The Cool Hunter. He wrote about my jewelry, which was really sweet as well. He’s become a friend. I saw him in Shanghai as well a few years ago. I think that’s the beauty of connecting with people through common interests.
Anne:
Now, I could have started with that, but I wanted to know … I only have a hint of the answers. I was wondering if you could tell us the story of what compelled you to get started in making jewelry?
Lama:
It’s a funny story. I was interning at my mom’s art gallery in the last year of my university years. I studied art in Jordan. I studied fine arts, and then I did my diploma in jewelry design and my master’s in product design. Basically, I was sitting there … I’ve always, throughout my life since I was a child, had this thing for jewelry. Actually, my mom keeps on telling me how as a child I used to stop her in front of facades of jewelry stores. I remember facades were stacked with gold, gold, gold, gold. It was incredible, like this whole façade.
Lama:
It’s not the sleek, composed, elegant little facades that have a torso with a statement necklace on it or a few rings, no. It was literally from top of the window to the bottom, stacked with gold. I used to stop her and not allow her to move for a good 10 or 15 minutes, just looking at everything. Then, as I grew, I started making my own things. I remember making a necklace with a sea star I had bought in a tiny shop as a child and having some beads and stuff. Mom used to collect bedouin jewelry and ancient, vintage jewelry. I’ve had that in my life growing up. Then, while we were are the gallery, it was the Iraq war time, so there was a jeweler looking for a job that came to the gallery.
Lama:
He actually said, “I’m a jeweler. I’m looking for a job.”
Lama:
Mom and I literally looked at each other like, “Ah. Why don’t we explore that? I mean, yeah. It sounds exciting.”
Lama:
We started a workshop in my mom’s tiny kitchen in the gallery, and we had such basic materials and instruments. It was so funny. I made my first jewelry collection. Then, six months later, I made my first exhibition in a foundation in Jordan. Her majesty, Queen Rania, actually had just become queen. She was supposed to open it, but I think she gave birth. I don’t remember what happened, but then it was kind of timeline, where she just became queen, and a new era in Jordan was happening. I had a beautiful exhibition there. A lot of feedback, a lot of positive reactions, and I tackled it as art. It wasn’t really as wearable, I would say, my work as now. It was more on the artsy, funky side. Then, I did another exhibition, which was really much more mature, more solid, and more connected as a concept. I thought I wanted something that makes me stand out.
Lama:
Also, it was at the time where a lot of stereotypes about the Arab world, women, religion, identity, and a lot of stereotypes, so I wanted to create or use my jewelry in a way that would go beyond any differences. I went back in time and started recreating my own prehistoric art and primitive art, so I drew my own symbols. I wanted to go and use a language that everyone identifies that goes beyond cultural, linguistic, or religious barriers, and unites everyone. Everyone sees it and looks familiar, but it’s different. I created my first collection, and it was a big hit. Then, museums started approaching me, because I had my jewelry in the American Museum of Natural History in Ottawa, in Toronto … It was incredible actually. Cincinnati and Canada. It was amazing, so I literally started that from my mother’s art gallery’s kitchen, creating and experimenting, to a full on jewelry designer and built my career from that moment.
Anne:
That’s wonderful. I heard you actually in interviews talking a little bit more about this fascination with primitive art. Would you mind telling me a little bit more about it, and how did that come to you as something that you wanted to connect to?
Lama:
I think being from a part of the world that is often misunderstood, labeled, and stereotyped makes a lot of the youth think, “How can I connect with the world without them seeing my skin color, religion, ethnicity, or physique?” What was interesting about my childhood is that my first trip as a child was when I was nine years old. They sent me to an art’s camp. I was really young, but I remember it vividly. I remember the pieces we did. We did jewelry also in that art’s camp. I’ve always had this desire to connect with the world. I have never felt that I belonged in one place, so my work reflects that literally. Without really connecting everything I pursued, and creating cultural bridges through jewelry, so I literally used it as a medium to connect with women and men all around the world for them to appreciate my part of the world, and putting the Arab world, the skills, the talents, the passion from my part of the world, on the map.
Anne:
Now, you opened your own [inaudible 00:17:56] in Jordan for your silver line. I just wanted to frame for our listeners that the line that you started in … What year was it that you started?
Lama:
2000.
Anne:
You started your Silver line in 2000. How long after did you open your own [inaudible 00:18:11] to make the jewelry?
Lama:
From the minute I started making my jewelry, it was made [inaudible 00:18:19], and then it was in my mom’s gallery kitchen. Then, we moved it in an independent workshop. A few years later, we expanded into an [inaudible 00:18:28], a big house, that we turned into a jewelry store and an art gallery. We’ve always combined the two together. Actually, throughout my creative journey in the first, let’s say, 10 years, I’ve almost always associated my jewelry with the museum or art’s gallery. I never tried to approach commercial stores or department stores. That was my perspective. Silver jewelry is not really easy to position in a department store, so it made more sense to be associated with the arts at that point before I started my fine jewelry line.
Lama:
It was interesting for me to look up articles that have been written around the silver line and to discover it through the eyes of these other journalists, dating back a decade or so. Some gorgeous stuff, I thought. Some of them really like statement. I kind of used that as an art. Silver is so neutral. I’ve always used it as a canvas. I’ve always exaggerated or pushed it a notch with those pieces, but the way of thinking of it is completely different than fine jewelry, precious metal, and all of that. It’s interesting, because I have to literally have two senses or two ways of thinking when I design, one for the fine jewelry and one for the silver jewelry.
Anne:
Would you talk to us about the difference in process? I’m fascinated about the inspirations that you had for some of your fine jewelry collection. I know that every designer works incredibly differently, so would you tell us how you approach design in general?
Lama:
Actually, all my designs, whether fine or silver line, start with emotions. It’s incredible, because the more I talk about it, the more I discover the journey as well. I discover how I process things, and I think this is also one of the things that connects my clients to my jewelry and makes them come back for more throughout the years. It starts with a trip, with an experience, and sometimes even a meal in a restaurant … or something that you will have seen, a book, or museum, or even an architectural monument and archeology.
Lama:
I’ve made connections inspired by the Inca civilization, so I had to study the architecture, the history, and the stories. I was in Peru, and I made a collection about the Glacier, because I was super fascinated with how nature actually exists, how trees grow, and ice. I mean, it’s incredible that there’s life. You would think there’s no life in a frozen environment. Emotions I felt in those places are the reason why I would create a collection inspired by those places. Then, it leads to research, kind of studying those places, creating my own version of that, and creating a story out of it that will translate into a design, collection, and a story actually to tell the client. My work has always, since the beginning, been based on storytelling, so now I see how important it is obviously today.
Lama:
I’ve created my whole brand on the stories I felt and the emotions on literally the first impression, that thing I want to transcend through that jewelry piece and I want the wearer to feel when they wear it. I can’t really put it exactly in words, but obviously I document, I take pictures, I sketch a lot until I get to the designs that I’m happy with. It takes me a few months, because I need to create some sort of creative or calculated chaos around me. There’re books and there’s a sketch book that is constantly open, waiting for me to sketch on it. I doodle, doodle, doodle nothing. A lot of rubbish comes out, and then slowly it turns and transforms into something that I can understand and pinpoint that this is the direction that I want to be going through. It’s really never the same process, because it depends on what I want to wear and where the thread starts. That’s it.
Anne:
I really enjoy the word “calculated chaos.” Thank you.
Lama:
This is me.
Anne:
That’s really inspiring. I don’t think of you as someone who’s chaotic, so I enjoy the image that you just-
Lama:
It only applies to my creative process, and that’s why I use calculated, because it’s never chaos. It’s always my chaos that I create to facilitate a path. I know where everything is. Nothing gets lost, but that chaos is important for me to jump and hop with my thoughts until I start tidying it up and creating something that I’m happy with.
Anne:
That’s wonderful. If you could sum it up, what does Lama Hourani Jewelry stand for?
Lama:
All my creative work starts with literally an emotion, a lot of passion, and a lot of happiness. Irrelevant on the theme or what I end up doing, the things I care about in my work, and I think people sense … First, I love what I do, so the passion is always there. The people that work, my team and the people that are part of the team that work on the pieces, are happy and are enjoying what they do. Three, my pieces attract certain type of people, people that are as curious as I am, as cultured, they’ve traveled the world, they’re open minded, and they can actually, to be honest afford whatever they want.
Lama:
They would choose to be identified with creative and unique pieces versus monogrammed or something identifiable from a certain brand. The three things I would say, but in general, as a style, there’s a lot of art and architecture. That’s actually because of my background and my upbringing. I think it’s always present in my work. I’m always kind of aiming to create those little miniature sculptures and art objects that are wearable, so this is what I would describe my work briefly.
Anne:
That’s wonderful. It’s nice for people who have not seen it yet. I will put all relevant links in the show notes so that people are able to access to you on multiple platforms. You are at the helm of your own brand, and you’ve obviously done incredibly well with it. I’d love to find out from you what were the road blocks in the way since you started, or what do you feel are the obstacles now to develop as an independent brand?
Lama:
A few things, to be honest. First, I started as an artist. I didn’t start as a commercial jewelry brand. That was an obstacle and an opportunity at the same time. I felt also sometimes being Jordanian, no one understands Jordan. Why would someone think a Jordanian brand would be as good as an Italian or American brand? Do you know what I mean? That was one of the things that was an opportunity and a difficulty at the same time. Other than that, having a small brand and then trying to understand what do you want out of this brand? What do you want to feel like your journey has been like? Do you want to keep on chasing, making it big? Do you want to expand? I’m always following my heart, and I’m always kind of trying to select who I want to collaborate with, the department stores, the people, and the clients. Somehow whomever I end up collaborating with becomes a friend somehow, because you get attracted to things that resemble you.
Lama:
You find something in those pieces in the jewelry, and it makes you feel something. That connection is reciprocated, and it’s usually building a long term relationship with the people I’ve worked with. Other than that, the obstacle was changing my way of thinking from silver jewelry to fine jewelry. I moved to find, which is actually a harder way of doing things. Usually you start really high end, and you make a more accessible line, a commercial line, for a price point to be more accessible and economic for the masses. What I did was the other way around. I started with the simpler line, and I created my fine jewelry line, just because my silver line wasn’t distributable. They were artworks, and they were impossible to replicate, so there was no place commercially for them in stores. I created the fine jewelry to have a niche product that is clearly commercially understood by clients and buyers.
Lama:
That was a harder road to take. It’s harder to reposition your brand to a more luxury brand than create a more affordable line. I would say that my biggest challenge to date, none of what I said actually were as challenging as the past four years. The minute I became a mother and having to choose my kids over my brand, and having to slow down significantly because I had no brain, emotion or mental space for anything else. I was completely consumed, so I had to slow down and give priority to my kids. That was the biggest challenge, to be honest. My team, I’m really proud of them, and I love them. They’ve been family to me. 20 years together, but I think it was impossible to be as present on both. I mean, I’m not the type that can give half myself to anything. Yeah. That was the biggest challenge, I think.
Anne:
I appreciate that. There’s one particular person I have in mind, who’s also a jewelry, who would just completely understand and agree with you.
Lama:
The fine jewelry marked, I think, 12 years on Lama Hourani Jewelry. It was a transition that was super natural, and it’s literally the juice or the condensed part of 20 years of making jewelry. I really love it. I’m really proud of the pieces, because they’re super wearable, and then I’ve found my niche. Basically, I work on very familiar elements, and I just twist them and turn them into these really different and unfamiliar pieces. There’s a lot of playfulness to it. I know that your favorite collections are the Evolution of Rock.
Anne:
I love it.
Lama:
Chillida.
Anne:
Chillida is so up my street. I mean, both of them I love. I’m also quite partial to the Minion. They’re so cute.
Lama:
The minions are so much fun. The minions just came out and about, because I love pearls, but I find pearls in the market to be a bit dull. I’m just bored of the fall pearls. It’s all over the market. I wanted to have characters that are made out of pearls and gold, so I created those little minion pendants that are super sweet and fun. Each person reacts to them differently, so some people see their horoscopes, their child’s character, their sister, best friend … It’s really fun and endearing. The other collection is Chillida. Chillida is one of my favorites as well. It’s inspired by one of my favorite artists. He’s a poet and philosopher. He passed away. He’s from San Sebastián in Spain, and his way of working is very poetic, very philosophical.
Lama:
I really wanted to do a jewelry collection that actually captured that, so I work a lot on the dot and the line, and the relationship and the playfulness between where a line starts, where, when, and how. It’s very feminine, but it’s also kind of masculine at the same time, even though it’s almost another skin on your skin, seamlessly merged into your hand. It’s nice, because you can stack them and you can wear several rings in the same hand. A lot of people can relate to them from an aesthetical point of view, so it depends on how you perceive jewelry. To me, jewelry is a second skin. It needs to be durable and it needs to be comfortable, but also it has to be unique. It has to reflect my way of thinking whenever anyone wears it. Actually, I think to reach that point where design and wearability meet and join forces perfectly, you need experience. You need to have done so many pieces of jewelry to understand exactly what works.
Anne:
The Evolution of Rock, that’s obviously a whole different story, again.
Lama:
It’s a star collection. This collection started with my wedding ring. My husband was too scared to design something. He’s like, “How do you propose to a jewelry designer?”, so he got me literally the most timeless, classical solitaire ring. He’s like, “Here. You can do whatever you want.” He proposed in a beautiful way. I have to say, he was super romantic.
Lama:
The day after, I was like, “So, the ring?”
Lama:
He’s like, “You can recreate it as a symbol of my commitment.”
Lama:
I literally turned. I was like, “What do I do?” I didn’t see myself wearing a classical, traditional diamond ring, so I literally put the diamond in between my fingers. I’m like, “Okay. That’s where I want it.” I started there. I started setting stones on the side so they sit in between your fingers perfectly, and it went from a formal way of seeing a wedding ring or an engagement ring into a super casual. It was like the ready-to-wear diamond. It’s also architectural. It preserves the integrity of the stone, so however it moves … because when you have the stone on top, it’s always moving, and it looks awkward because it’s tilted here and there.
Lama:
This way, it’s perfectly sitting in between your fingers. It’s architecturally super interesting, and however it moves, it looks super designed and light goes through. I wanted to reinvent what we think of a rock, so I broke it, I restructured it, and I just worked on the structure and facets. It became super architectural. It became clean lines, but then you have this beautiful stone in between your fingers and sitting comfortably. Then, it doesn’t catch into your clothes. Really, it became a solution and an aesthetic. I love this collection, because it’s commercially super appealing as well, because it’s really different and speaks to a lot of people.
Anne:
Thank you so much for that. That was wonderful. I wanted to talk a little bit more about the [inaudible 00:33:55] in Jordan, because I know it has really very strong ethical and socioeconomic goals. Would you talk me through what you’re doing and who’s making your jewelry there?
Lama:
My silver line is socially impactful. Since the beginning, other than creating culture bridges, I wanted to have some sort of an impact. I can’t say that’s the most socially impactful project in Jordan, but my point was I need to empower women, especially underprivileged women that have no access to skills. They have the education, but they don’t have the means to create their own businesses. The minute you empower a woman financially, there are actually studies and statistics that say women would give almost 90 per cent of their income to their families to improve education and the wellbeing of their family. That’s one of the key things for me was building [inaudible 00:35:03].
Lama:
In Jordan, there’re some limitations for women sometimes, so I wanted to break those barriers by empowering them through skills and economic empowerment. What I did until a few years ago was giveaways. We did a lot of corporate gifts that were done in collaboration with women at home that we gave the tools, we trained, and the raw materials. Those gifts were priced above. Labor and everything was priced above what a commercial mass produced gift would be, and those buying organizations were actually approaching us for that, because they wanted to have some sort of an impact as well. This is that part. Now, actually people are referring to my journey or me as a culture entrepreneur, now that entrepreneurship is the right word.
Lama:
At the time, I didn’t know that I was doing that. My passion is about connecting and creating those [inaudible 00:36:07] with the Arab world and Jordan’s, and enabling a lot of youth to also dream and see that a Jordanian brand was exhibited in museums around the world, was worn by beautiful women … incredible, inspiring, strong women around the world, and the celebrities, first ladies, and all of that. This is so important to me, because every young person in the Arab world needs an example. We need to see themselves succeeding through seeing other success stories. That’s not easy seeing the status and the situation in the middle east, but every story counts, ever success story counts, and every passionate journey counts at this point.
Anne:
I love that so much. I think it’s super inspiring to hear not just your story but the fact that you were already and always finding means to invest in education. I’m finding myself more and more interested in the same subjects actually, probably because I’m reading some of the same reports as you are. Empowering young girls and women is becoming a really interesting focus of mine as well. You’ve lived in many countries, and we joke about your language. I think you call it Lamanese, and I call it-
Lama:
[crosstalk 00:37:30] Lamanese. Yeah. When I was in Milano, this whole obsession with Milanese, so they called it Lamanese. My Italian friends used to call my language Lamanese, so it was an Italian thing describing my way of expressing myself.
Anne:
But you’ve kind of only spoken English so far in this interview, so well done reining Lamanese in for this occasion.
Lama:
I think now I have to be more responsible with kids, and I have to stick to one language. They speak five languages right now. They’re working on their fifth. I think in the future, if they choose to do Lamanese, they can, but now we need to focus … one language at a time. Actually, when they play, they play in French, but whenever they’re stuck, they start making words in English or Spanish, French-sounding. They make them sound French, but they’re not really French. They’ve inherited Lamanese actually, so it’s there.
Anne:
That’s fascinating. Lamanese is a mix of Arabic, English, Italian …
Lama:
English, Italian at the time, and now Spanish.
Anne:
And maybe a little bit of French sometimes.
Lama:
Oh yeah, and French too. I forgot.
Anne:
And now you’re back in Shanghai. Tell me about your relationship with the city, and also what you enjoy about being in Asia in that culture, and how that could influence Lamanese?
Lama:
Coming from Paris to Shanghai was a major change, because all of a sudden I come to a place where there’s incredible energy. There’s so much happening, so much enthusiasm, passion, and hard work. A lot of smiles … That was the key point. I arrived, people smile. They’re respectful. They’re kind. They’re sweet. I wanted to hug every single person I met in the first week. It was so funny. I kept on being surprised when someone was nice to me. Then, I just loved the energy here. They really want to be on the global stage in every aspect. It was last week or the week before, it was fashion week here, and it was incredible to see show rooms and their brands coming from China, and how modern and relevant.
Lama:
It was really, really, really heart warming, so it’s just feeling you’re a part of a place where there’s community, there’s commitment to the community, and there’s hunger for self-improvement. Coming from a place where everything’s about the past … Every single country in Europe acts like it’s the center of the world, which maybe once upon a time they had that for a moment and glory in history, but today we’re in a different reality in time where we really all need to work hard to be all connected and join forces to make the world a better place. It’s just seeing how chaotic everything is right now, with COVID and seeing how humans are reacting so differently in so many different parts of the world to a common, human, drastic crisis that we all need to unite, be empathetic, be a part of a community, and think of each other when we deal with it.
Lama:
It’s really shocking how the world is handling it so differently in so many different parts of the world. I mean, the underdog countries are performing and doing much better than the most developed countries in the sense of community, so I don’t know. I’m happy to be here, and I feel really grateful for this opportunity. I’m grateful that my kids get to learn a language that will be super important in the future. As a family, this is where we belong right now, and I always call myself local, because I am globally local, so anywhere I’ve met someone who’s exactly the same. Ramon and I have always been … You just throw us anywhere, and we kind of immerse into this new culture experience. It also depends on the people, so you really need that sense of community, and in some parts of the world that’s absent right now.
Anne:
I was just about to ask you as well about GQ, which is not the magazine, but a term that’s supposed to mean global intelligence. A few years ago, you were named a young global leaders at the World Economic Forum, so would you talk us through what global intelligence means, and what you did as part of that select group of young leaders?
Lama:
The World Economic Forum selects a few people around the world that have some sort of an impact on their societies by improving their society and creating a better future in their countries, enabling their societies as well. My role was cultural, and that’s why I was recognized as part of that group. It’s a group of incredible people that are super inspiring, If you would tell me who’s the most inspiring person, there is two people that come to mind that really have changed my perspective to tolerance, pain, and loss. There’s so much to learn from the community. Sometimes I look at my journey, I reflect, and I would say that maybe I should have done this or that. Somehow, your journey and experience makes sense when you’re a part of that environment, where you have something to add and you have a lot to learn, and it’s really, really a beautiful process.
Anne:
May I ask who are those two people you want to name who are so inspirational for you, if that feels appropriate?
Lama:
One is Mark Pollock, who is an athlete and had an accident. He became blind, and then he had another accident. He fell out of a window and got paralyzed. He’s dedicated his life to empower people with physical disabilities, challenges, accidents, robotic technology, making solutions for paralysis, and empowering people who are unable of moving.
Anne:
Wow.
Lama:
The other one is Maickel Melamed We did a Harvard course together, and he was super inspiring. I met him for the first time there, and he is from Venezuela. Mark Pollock is from Ireland, and Maickel Melamed is from Venezuela. He was born with … I don’t know, his body wasn’t growing basically, and he was not moving properly. Until today, he wasn’t supposed to be in theory, from a physical point of view, to walk or move the way he does now, but he had extremely loving and supporting people around him that made him believe that he can do anything and nothing is impossible. He actually can walk and move, and he ran marathons. He can’t really run, but he walks fast. He did run marathons throughout his life, and he’s one of the most inspiring, most loving, and generous people I have met in my life. He’s incredible.
Anne:
That’s so lovely. Thank you so much for sharing. You and I both lived in Paris for a while, and we found it a little bit difficult for various reasons. Would you talk through how does your environment impact your creativity?
Lama:
It’s incredible. I never thought that I would be challenged anywhere in the world in the sense of capacity, belonging, merging, immersing, and all of that. Paris was harsh, very harsh. To be honest, we were in a fragile state, because we just had out twins. We arrived pregnant, and we had to figure out everything. In general, everything is so hard. I mean, what’s the first word you hear when you’re in Paris?
Anne:
Non?
Lama:
C’est pas possible.
Anne:
It sounds about right.
Lama:
That was everything. Internet. Basics. N’est pas possible. Then, you know everyone’s grumpy all the time. Everyone’s complaining all the time. Everyone’s angry all the time. Really, really that affected me a lot. It’s a beautiful, magnificent place with incredible people. I’m sure I’m generalizing, but I’ve had incredible friends and I’ve made incredible friends there, but to be honest, these friends that I have now that are from Paris, they’ve all lived somewhere else in certain points of their life. They’re completely international, and they completely understand the actual frustration that I might have with a person that is stuck in a bubble. I have that problem with anyone anywhere in the world that is stuck and has that local mentality, as big as Paris, so it’s frustrating. It’s vicious circle.
Lama:
Again, the nanny comes to you and tells you, “Let your kids cry an hour a day or two hours. It’s good for their hearts.”
Lama:
I’m like, “No, but my kids have reflex, and I know why they’re crying. They’re in pain, and we should on the contrary nurture them, love them, and support them.” To prove my point, I was like, “Please, when you go out of your house tomorrow, until you come to my house, tell me how many people smile to you in the streets and say ‘Bonjour’.” [inaudible 00:47:36] Nobody. I’m like, “Exactly. Most of these people are [inaudible 00:47:41], and they were left to cry for two hours every day.” That’s how I convinced her not to let my kids cry. Mentally, you have to really work hard around things to comprehend the harshness of life there, even though we were super blessed and I feel super privileged to have experienced. My kids were born there. I will always love the city and cherish the memories I have there, but I have to be honest. It was hard. It was the hardest place I have experienced.
Anne:
Yeah. I see that. Can I ask you … You know that the podcasts, like me, is at the crossroads between business and mindfulness. I was wondering what you do to keep yourself grounded or centered in your life in general, whether isn’t something that’s an older practice, or how do you find yourself? What works for you today as a mother, as a wife, as a creative, or as a business person in a bustling city like Shanghai?
Lama:
It’s not hard. I’m from the Middle East, so since my childhood I’m aware of tragedy. I’m aware of injustice. I’m aware of how lucky and privileged I am. To be honest, it’s pretty frustrating, because I think I am very sensitive to the welfare and the human state of the world actually. It affects me a lot, and I always try to have a little impact or connect with people in other parts of the world, or maybe help an artist. What I generally do, and we do as a family, is we hear of a person that needs a scholarship or is excelling at school, and we would help cover some school feels. I would help a designer or an artist get more exposure, and I would help promote people from the Middle East. My dream actually, and the reason why I want my business to go to a scale that is way bigger, just for me to be able to empower, hire, and create this creative hub in the Middle East, and nurture talents and skills. This is one of my dreams.
Lama:
Other than that, you just need to turn on the TV or Facebook to know what’s going on, because my algorithms just attract all the terrible humanitarian crises around the world. If I want to disconnect, I definitely disconnect from social media. My way of breathing or meditating is I listen to classical music. I’ve done it since I started my pregnancy. Since I got pregnant until today, my refuge is classical music. That’s when I disconnect, I breathe, and I meditate. I do yoga, and I do now boxing. I’ve always loved it, and now I’m doing it more regularly. It really is an outlet. It’s amazing. I never thought I would enjoy punching something. It’s really enjoyable. Other than that, really learning. Every day, I wake up just focused on how grateful, how blessed, and how privileged I feel.
Lama:
I always talk to my kids about how important it is to appreciate things. I hope that they are as empathetic and aware. They haven’t had the same upbringing and circumstances I have, so we’ve always wondered how we can connect our kids with the world on the sense of empathy. I think that will come with time. Environmentally speaking, we are always talking about it. I don’t want them to be anxious, so there’s a new form of anxiety that’s forming in children nowadays because of the environment. They’re really scared of how much pollution, how much the environment is changing, and how little time we have. The more they know about it, the more anxious they are, so we need to also be careful of how we can make it a lifestyle versus an anxiety. We’re learning. We’re eating less meat. We’re using less water. We are buying more cautiously and sustainably. We’re trying very hard to be as connected and as aware, and that is part of our life. It’s not something we’re enforcing, trying, or changing. That’s embedded.
Anne:
That’s beautiful. Now, can I switch and just ask you a couple of closing questions, if that’s okay?
Lama:
Sure. Of course.
Anne:
Tell me what is your favorite word?
Lama:
I will tell you hybrid, but then I think Lamanese is my favorite word right now.
Anne:
Yes. Of course, if you have your own language.
Lama:
Yes. It’s a reflection of my crazy little world that is literally a world. It’s not a place. I would want to say hybrid, because I feel like I’m a combination of so many things. I also fit everywhere, and I feel like my kids are exactly the same, and my husband is exactly the same. My favorite word is Lamon, and it became Lamoncitos with my kids. That’s it. I’ve changed my mind.
Anne:
Can you just explain to people what does that mean? Lamoncitos.
Lama:
Our friends used to call us Lamon, which is Lama and Ramon. My husband’s name is Ramon. They made us Lamon, and then when my kids were born, Dalila and Mateo, we called them Lamoncitos, which is a mini …
Anne:
Mini Lamon.
Lama:
… Lamon in Spanish. Yeah.
Anne:
That is the best word. I love made up words.
Lama:
So weird. Yeah.
Anne:
What would you say to your younger self if you could go back in time and send yourself a message?
Lama:
To be honest, I’m proud of my younger self, because from the circumstances and the society, to what was expected of me to what I’ve become, it’s quite a stretch. I would say have more fun. Relax. My god. I have a few years I was really uptight. I would say just be more open and more relaxed, and not be afraid or fall into any social or any expectation pressure. To be honest, traveling I did. Exploration, I did. I really followed my heart, but I would do it a bit earlier, I think.
Anne:
What book is either next to your bed or on your desk?
Lama:
There is two books. I have Roomie next to my bed at all times. I have a book called Behave. It’s about neuroscience, which I’m trying to get into. It’s a bit of a hard read, especially when you don’t have so much brain … Every day actually, I open a page, and it reads … It’s a poetic was done for life, for a better life. It’s just stuff you would tell yourself every day. I love that.
Anne:
That sounds wonderful. As a final question, can I ask you what brings you happiness?
Lama:
My engine has always been connected to people. Again, my happiness right now is really literally seeing how happy my kids are. It comes from contentment, gratitude, and making people happy. It’s a cycle. Happiness breathing happiness, and it’s just little things. I’ve learned to appreciate the smallest things, and I hope I continue to be that person. I hope my kids get to be those people that actually appreciate the smallest things and understand how lucky they are.
Anne:
Thank you so much. That’s really wonderful. I appreciate the time that you gave me today. I know that the kids have been incredibly well-behaved. We have not heard them in the background, by the way.
Lama:
I know. I’m shocked. I was expecting banging on the door. “The hour is over.”
Anne:
That’s so funny. Thank you so much. I will put all of the links in the show notes about the books, the collections, and everything we talked about. People can find you on lamahourani.com.
Lama:
Lamahourani.com, yes. Mainly, and in China we’re working on a mini store or mini program, which is totally a new game for me. It’s incredible how different e-commerce is in China than the world.
Anne:
Wow. That sounds very exciting. I can’t wait to see what that’s going to be like.
Lama:
Me too.
Anne:
Thank you so much for everything. I hope to be speaking to you very, very soon. Thank you again.
Lama:
Thank you. I loved our conversation.
Anne:
Thank you.
Anne:
Thank you again to Lama for being my guest on the show today. You can find her at lamahourani.com, and of course all of the links are included in the show notes. That’s it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you’ll join us again next time. Our theme music is by Conor Heffernan, artwork by Brian Ponto, special thanks to Pete and Joe for editing and sound. You can soon find all of my episodes and more about my projects at annemuhlethaler.com. Sign up to receive updates on all the fun things I am doing. The site will be live very soon. If you can, I’d love it if you would rate and review the show on iTunes. It helps other people find it, and I appreciate it very much. Until next time, be well, be safe, remember the hand washing, the mask, social distancing, and all that good stuff.
